Communications For the Win

Shahar: Welcome to “Always On”, the podcast about brand, reputation and data-driven communications. I’m your host in Copenhagen, Shahar Silbershatz, and our guest today is Torod Neptune, Senior Vice President for Corporate Marketing and Chief Brand and Communications Officer at Medtronic, which is a global leader in medical technology, with over 100,000 employees across 150 markets. Great to have you with us today, Torod. 

Torod: Happy to be with you. 

Shahar: So, let’s start… we’d like to start in a very simple way. Just ask you, how do you describe yourself when you meet somebody who doesn’t know you?  

Torod: In the spirit of trying to be creative about a role that is still hard to define, even for people who have known me for quite a while is, I probably suggest “a business and operations leader who’s adept at helping a company compete and win in the marketplace”.  

Shahar: And how do you describe yourself beyond your career and your job?  

Torod: I’d say a global citizen, who is passionate about cultures and connections and stories and authenticity.  

Shahar: So let’s talk about the beginning of your journey in communications. How did you first get into it? 

Torod: Before I actually got into communications, I got into it by really being exposed to the power of storytelling. And storytelling through the lens of making really complex issues plain, simple, and helping audiences, people, understand, in many ways, the imperative of issues or concepts that weren’t clear, weren’t obvious to them, their importance, their significance. 

And that was largely through politics. And so I grew up as the child of politicians. And from very early on, I remember being on the campaign field and witnessing this art of being able to make the complex simple and engaging audiences to try and help them understand things that mattered, that in many instances they weren’t aware of or did not appreciate the significance of those things. 

And I think as I grew, that became storytelling in its truest form, even though at that point I did not realize obviously what it was. And so in some ways I talk about, you know, stumbling into this career as the epitome of an accident that just happened. And so that’s the way I think about that.  

Shahar: How would you say the profession or the field of communications has changed over those years?  

Torod: Pretty dramatically. And so I’ve not been at it for that long, but long enough, and I think not surprisingly, you know, social and digital, social media, digital, are probably the two most significant bookends, in my mind. 

And, as a result of those shifts, what that did to empower, you know, audiences or stakeholders, however you think them, to really be able to use their voices in a way that, at times, is disruptive, that, you know, at certain times, it’s valuable, but that change in this balance of the scales, you know, that social enabled for audiences that traditionally we did not have to, you know, treat in the way we do today or didn’t have to consider in the way we do today, and they certainly didn’t have, again, the power and influence that they have today because of the advent of the web. 

I think that’s probably, foundationally, one of the biggest shifts that’s impacted, you know, seven, eight layers of things in our discipline beyond that. But if I’m being super-thoughtful, I’d probably that is the most seismic change that we’ve witnessed.  

Shahar: And the element of social and digital, of course, were also two of the forces that made this profession or this field a lot more complex. We’re seeing a rise in complexity, and I’m sure you’re feeling that in your day to day work. Part of the idea of calling this “Always On” is also seeing that communication teams are finding a need for themselves and the companies to be “always on” because the world is moving a lot faster and there’s a lot more expectations. Are you also seeing it from your side, the complexity requiring an “always on” approach?  

Torod: Oh, sure. I mean, the need, not just because of the global world we live in today. I think because events can happen, you know, these stakeholders, these audiences, again, have access to tools and mechanisms that can be deployed or leveraged 24/7. 

So, dramatic changes there in terms of just what is the need to have constant awareness, visibility, that’s reflected in the way we monitor today, 24/7. And in some ways, you know, it also reflects how the jobs that I have, and my counterparts have, have become much more complex as well, because we, by default, have to be at least “on” close to that same, you know, 24/7 view as well, to my family’s chagrin. So that’s also been another one of those big seismic shifts, to your earlier question.  

Shahar: So tell me a bit about how you and your company are “always on”. So you mentioned, you know, 24/7 monitoring, for example. What are the other aspects, would you say, of your work or the company’s attitude are “always on”?  

Torod: I mean, the monitoring is a big, you know, big way that we can show we keep our finger on the pulse of what’s happening across the, for us, seven to 10 stakeholder groups that matter the most to us as a company. And so we are able to, you know, put a finger in the wind at any moment, you know, in a 24-hour cycle to understand not just what’s happening, but how perhaps what we have done or messages that we put into the marketplace or things that are happening across any of those constituencies are impacting our brand, our reputation. 

And so, I mean, that’s obviously at its most, at its most practical level, you know, where tools and innovation in the, you know, again, digital space has allowed us to be able to do that in a way that, again, was unheard of 30 years ago. 

And I think for me, it’s probably, like most consumers, or probably like you, more a factor of, you know, the apps and the news feeds that I, you know, have, you know, dialed in to just be on constant stream in my device so that I can, at any moment, you know, pick it up and see, you know, what’s happening anywhere in the world as well. 

And so I think that’s also, you know, the way that I think about, you know, staying close to that same real-time, “always on” reality for all of us, both personally and professionally. But it gets hard sometimes. And so back to… the aspiration for me is eight hours of sleep. I don’t remember the last time I got that. And so… but it’s still the goal, and that’s disrupted most often because, you know, I need to be aware, engaged or at least cognizant of something happening somewhere in the world. Or the potential of something happening somewhere in the world.  

Shahar: Yeah, it’s definitely one of the drawbacks of our profession today that you are expected to be very much plugged in and with a finger on the pulse at all times. Tell us a bit about the technology, the tools that you use, the tech stack you use, to help you in that regard.  

Torod: So, on the company side, I mean, I don’t think there’s anything that would be too shocking in terms of, there are a number of great partners, vendors, that we engage, who kind of help us have a view into, you know, what’s happening across all these audiences, stakeholders, and essentially enable that 24/7 view. 

For me, like I mentioned a little earlier, it’s probably, for me, you know, eight or 10 apps that are my go-tos. news feeds, news aggregators as well. And then some of the personal, you know, engagements that I have. You know, there are a couple of people that I stay pretty connected to, who have their finger even more on the pulse of, you know, what’s happening. And so, that group of five or 10 kind of personal connections, professional connections, help me stay attuned across, you know, different perspectives. And so back to broadening the aperture and ensuring that, you know, we don’t allow ourselves to be, you know, backed into this very tribal view of, you know, news and information and data. 

You know, a lot of those voices, you know, perspectives are things that are counter to what, you know, might be my views or my opinions, and so I think that’s also a key part of, you know, the value that people sitting in roles like ours have to play as well, have to bring to organizations. It is that awareness and understanding of the entire spectrum of not just what’s happening in the world but, you know, what our audiences think, believe or are experiencing and encountering in a way that allows us to be honest brokers who are informed and knowledgeable about many things, many perspectives. 

Shahar: That’s an interesting dimension. So it’s not really only about the sources and the tools that we use. It’s also the people that we’re connected to, to help us with the interpretation of what’s happening all the time, right?  

Torod: Yeah, even more so today, right? Again, because of the battle and the tribalism that we all live in every day. You’ve got to make this intentional effort to avoid being, you know, pulled into your corridor with, you know, all of the like voices and perspectives. And so that gets increasingly more challenging with every passing day, it seems. 

Shahar: Interesting points. When it comes to using data, if you can tell us a little bit about how your team uses data in managing communications and stakeholder engagement… You mentioned, obviously, news monitoring. What other type of data points do they use in their day to day work? 

Torod: We have a, I’d say, fairly sophisticated operation that we’ve built over the last three years or so here, and it’s access to data and analytics that are core to our reputation, our brand, our sentiment in the marketplace. Again, across those stakeholder groups, we look at the levers that influence, you know, trust across those constituencies. 

Or the dimensions of trust across each of those stakeholder groups. And we look at that data pretty consistently and then share that out across our leadership in the company quarterly. You know, my boss and I talk about it in our ongoing conversations as well. So that’s a whole body of work that is fairly robust for us. And I think increasingly is table stakes for, you know, organizations like ours.  

Shahar: And is that real-time data, or is that periodic, typically?  

Torod: It’s both. It’s both.  

Shahar: Depending on the stakeholder, I imagine.  

Torod: Yes. So, that’s increasingly important. And so I think, for us, that’s what we prioritize. And then just ongoing understanding of, again, audiences and stakeholders and perceptions, and so we’re leveraging that data to build campaigns, to architect programs, to calibrate programs that are working or may not be working, or to eliminate, you know, activity that’s not driving value, creating value for the organization. 

So it’s not all kind of brand reputation monitoring and tracking. It’s also much more programmatic data to help us understand where we have white space opportunities as well, and where we may want to lean in or lean out as well. So, get super-excited about the growth in this space. 

When we think about not just some of the great work that, you know, some of our partners are doing to enable us to get deeper and richer in this way, but also the value it brings to us as practitioners to be armed with, you know, that level of understanding and insight, which ultimately is going to continue to allow us to play a different role in our organizations, whether that’s around the table in the C-suite or around the table wherever it exists in our organizations. 

I think data will increasingly be one of the most influential tools, weapons, we have to continue to carve out a role that is strategic and informed and grounded and sharp and pointy. That also is unique in our organization because very few of our counterparts will be able to bring that perspective, grounded in data, that we can and should be bringing every day.  

Shahar: It sounds pretty advanced within the comms space to have that type of data infrastructure and to use it, as you said, for budget purposes, budget allocation, trying to see where you get more investment and focusing on the more impactful activities. 

Is that something that you initiated because you saw the value of it? Did you also get any push from the C-suite or CFO, CEO to have more metrics to be able to measure more ROI?  

Torod: For me, not really a push from the C-suite as much as — and this has been over the course of, you know, multiple years now — but I think in the beginning it was a part of a clear desire, and this is still my perspective today, to elevate the stature of the function, to move us up the stack, if you will, away from this construct that historically our function has been attached to, which is the tactical, the doers, the, you know, kind of deli counters. 

That being the reality, if you think about the way that you change that perception and the way the organization historically has shown up is, you got to be grounded in some level of understanding of, you know, the insights that, you know, this data provides for us. And so I think that was really the beginnings of the thought about, well, what do we have available to us that can allow us to begin to make that shift or move up the stack? 

And so increasingly, from my perspective, you know, this whole body of work is really designed to help us continue to reinforce this role of our teams, our people, our functions, as strategists, as business leaders, as operations leaders who can see around every corner, have this wealth of knowledge and perspective similar to our counterparts in finance and legal and IT and every other organization that sits around the proverbial table, and so that was the origin of the investment. 

And then increasingly, I think, as the tools and the capability have matured, and it is my belief that it is critical, I think the desire to have increasingly more sophisticated data available to us, and then to leverage that data to, you know, not just build programs, but to also bring an unbelievable amount of rich insight to the conversations we are able to have with our internal stakeholders is also part of the critical reason, I think, any function that is not leaning heavily in this domain, I’d say is probably at risk and will be ultimately challenged in the resource, you know, game where we’re competing for dollars against finance and legal and IT and, you know, we can’t put up, you know, the rationale of “it’s the right thing to do“, or “it’s a good thing to do“, or “it’ll make us all feel good”, because that doesn’t work any longer. It’s got to be, “I can prove to you the value and the impact of this work on creating value for the enterprise,” and that’s ultimately where we’ve got to continue to hang our hats.  

Shahar: Definitely. Do you think the fact that you came from a more B2C environment to Medtronic, which is more B2B. Do you think that background in B2C has helped you develop a higher level of comfort or sophistication when it comes to using data?  

Torod: I think, you know, working in a consumer brand, you know, exposes you to a different dimension of, you know, reputation and brand and, you know, this criticality of insights into your, you know, audiences, your customers, and needing to be so close to that when you’re running consumer businesses with, you know, smaller margins where the competition is breakneck, if you will. I think it creates not just a different psyche, but also creates a much more aggressive view of the capability that you need to build to not just understand, but to be able to engage, you know, your publics, your audiences, in a way that is meaningful and creative and that, again, ultimately is going to drive value in a way that consumer brands are just forced to operate and behave. But I do think it informs my perspective to your point in a B2B environment or B2B2C, which is how I talk about Medtronic today. So I’d say unquestionably.  

Shahar: Now you mentioned seven to 10 stakeholder groups, and I want to talk a little bit about this multi-stakeholder aspect. That in itself is also quite extensive. I mean, people typically think about, you know, customers, investors, and employees, which are the first three groups. What are some of the other groups that you are focusing on within your stakeholder universe?  

Torod: So you think policymakers, regulators, financial analysts, and for us, given, you know, our business, we call them healthcare providers, are also, you know, another one of those. And so in the hospital, you know, the C-suite, if you will, the CEOs, the chief procurement officers and health system leaders is another as well. 

So if you think about across that entire spectrum, HCPs, that’s just the actual physicians, clinicians themselves. And so those three or four additional stakeholders kind of make up our whole spectrum. I talk about those audiences that we monitor, you know, engage with directly and want to make sure that we are pretty dialed into their psyche.  

Shahar: And how do you manage to communicate effectively and maintain a consistency of the brand across this wide array of stakeholders? Must be a challenge.  

Torod: It is a challenge. I mean, to your last point, to your last question, it begins with understanding the “who”, right? So who actually is it that you’re trying to engage and having a real informed understanding of to the data and analytics and insights piece, what matters to them, right? How you can engage them, how they prefer to be engaged. 

Not just in terms of messaging, but channels, right? And then, to the consistency question, it all starts with a clear understanding of, “so what is that consistent message, story, narrative that we know we want to tell across all of these audiences, across all those channels?” Even though it clearly needs to be dimensionalized, depending on the audience, but a clear understanding of what that is, message, right, aligned with a clear understanding the “who”, because it’s not always the, you know, six or seven, you know, together as a collective and in some instances, depending on the opportunity or the effort, it may be one or two or three of them, right? And so, again, a clear understanding of what matters to them, how they prefer to be, you know, engaged and, you know, where they prefer to be engaged is really how you’ve got to think about a clear, clean, consistent, easy engagement path in that way, that is different, right? 

Different as opposed to, you know, historically, I would suggest that our perspectives from the function was probably more our audiences or everybody, even from the consumer vantage point. To your consumer brand question, I think our function used to think that, you know, all the consumers were our audience and so that was never true and probably never has been true, isn’t true today. And so that real data-grounded understanding of, “okay, let’s get super-crisp on the which makes all the other downstream decisions, messaging channels, and all of that much easier as well, once you’ve done the work upfront. 

Shahar: But I guess the “who” is also tricky because the lines are getting a little blurry between stakeholder groups, right? So, do you find that also evolving or impacting your work?  

Torod: Yeah. Definitely, and it’s a great question. It’s a nuance of, you know, this audience segmentation conversation that we were having. So if you think about employees as one of stakeholders, you know, we often say our employees are consumers as well, right? And even, you know, for us in that, you know, HCP or the clinician, you know, health system leader community, they’re consumers. 

Even though we’ve thought about them historically as the B2B, the reality is, you know, people sitting in that B2B environment are consumers and that’s, again, one of the downstream consequences of social and digital, right? It allows someone who may be seen as a traditional B2B stakeholder to really, you know, behave as a consumer as they probably always have.  

We convinced ourselves of this construct, you know, B2B, B2C as something that was perhaps a little more meaningful than it was in reality. And so today everyone’s a consumer regardless of where you sit. And so I think, as marketers or brand leaders and communicators, we’ve got to disavow ourselves of some of that vernacular, some of that thinking, because it really is old world.  

Shahar: Do you think your background… another twist in your career, I guess, your background in public affairs and your work in Washington, DC… Do you think that made you better at building relationships with stakeholders?  

Torod: Yeah, I think about this often. I’ve talked about it, you know, before as well. I think there are many values to having spent so much time in Washington, DC and the political environment, you know, the congressional environment. But I think the most significant is, probably to your point, navigating stakeholder relationships, that core relationship management competency, that in the political context is unbelievably challenging. 

I think that was a fascinating experience that ultimately made me a better communicator. When you think about just navigating the relationship spectrum, and doing that environment, it’s probably as risky and challenging thorny as it can possibly be. 

But that experience for me did ground me in an understanding that is valuable now in a corporate context, when we think about, again, those seven or eight audiences and stakeholders the imperative of building relationships with them and understanding how to do that, appreciating the competition between stakeholder groups and perspectives, and threading that needle again, that, you know, political stakeholder management is really a mechanism for allowing you to be expert in connecting the dots, right? So what is the consistent opportunity for us to engage all of these audiences, whether that’s a story, whether that’s an idea, whether that’s a campaign, whether that’s an issue, is core to the work we do as, you know, practitioners in a corporate setting, certainly for me, but I’d say core to the work we do as practitioners, environment we’re sitting in. And so that was an unbelievably rich experience.  

Shahar: And I imagine probably even more so today that that helps you deal with it, the reality where companies are expected, and CEOs are expected more and more, to weigh in on political issues and social issues. That’s very different from how things were 10, 20 years ago. How do you help the company decide whether or when or how to weigh in on such issues?  

Torod: Yeah, it’s a great question, in this environment, you know, that I think is even more important now than it was, you know, certainly five years ago, when we did not have the number of issues that are happening around us. But, you know, the bigger shift being this trust, you know, levers that have been pulled in terms of organizations, stakeholders and I think we find ourselves as industry or business today is one of the more highly regarded, you know, voices, stakeholders. 

And so that, when you combine with this kind of broader societal, economic, cultural disruption that we’re all witnessing, has created a situation where there is a much more constant expectation that businesses in particular will engage in some of these things. 

And so, to answer your question, you know, navigating around that for us, we spent a lot of time over the last couple of years building a decision-making, you know, organization, entity, you know, process that allows us to not just evaluate, you know, issues when they are presented to us where we are challenged or invited to have a perspective or to weigh in on an issue, but we’ve also done the work to identify issues that I describe as issues that are latent to our organization. 

So those are the things that we are most likely to encounter just by nature of the business that we are in. So healthcare for us, healthcare technology, and so understanding what those potential issues are and then doing the work to navigate a plan to address any of those as they might emerge. 

That kind of planning and rigor has been core to this, you know, two-plus-year exercise for us and building a real approach that allows us to have a process grounded in our business, grounded in our mission and those things that are of value to us as a company, those things that are core to our character. 

Shahar: Sorry, so is there a regular cadence where you get together and you think ahead to see what’s coming down the pipe?  

Torod: Yes, and it’s actually a global team that we’ve built within the organization that meets consistently to look at kind of proactive issues, again, to those latent issues, but also it might be engaged in a moment when something emerges today or tomorrow or, you know, in the next three days. And so it’s ad hoc as well.  

Shahar: And so through that process, do you provide this proactive advice to the CEO also when you think there’s an opportunity to actually express an opinion or take a stance?  

Torod: Yeah, so that group actually generates a recommendation, and then, you know, a message or a plan, if it’s something we decide we’re going to weigh in, or if it decides that we ought to opt out of weighing in. 

So that, you know, produces a recommendation, that comes to me and that winds up being what I take to my boss, the CEO and the CEO’s leadership team. And then we have a, you know, healthy spirited debate. Sometimes the decision of that group is endorsed, supported. Sometimes, you know, there’s a bit of a back and forth and we may ultimately decide to go in a different direction, all right? 

We use that recommendation from that group to inform a discussion or debate, but then around that table, you know, consider, again, bringing the business perspective, in the stakeholder perspective as well, but then make a collective decision as a leadership team on “yay” or “nay”. So it is a pretty dynamic process.  

Shahar: And who’s part of that group?  

Torod: We call it our reputation issues management team, and it is representatives of the business functions, certainly of, you know, my team. And so it is pretty representative of almost every nook and cranny. So there’s global representation. We try to ensure there’s, you know, there is clearly gender cultural, because, you know, many of these issues are nuanced, depending on where you sit in the world, your perspective, and so we want to make sure we have the benefit of as many perspectives as possible. So it is a pretty broad and global group and representative of almost every aspect of our society that sits within the four walls of our company, at least.  

Shahar: Sounds like a substantial set-up that you have there. 

Torod: I think it’s a great model. I would actually argue that it’s close to best in breed. And so from what I’ve seen from my counterparts over the last couple of years, I would hold ours up against, you know, some of the best that are out there.  

Shahar: And are you finding that the discussions are becoming more and more difficult? I mean, given the rise in polarization, especially in America, I mean, it must be getting very difficult to have these discussions among such a diverse group of people.  

Torod: Yeah, I would suggest… so I’m not a member of that group, but you know, from what I hear and in some ways that actually is the goal, right? So the goal of that group being as broad and diverse as it is, is to ensure that there’s spirited discussion and debate and that these perspectives… you know, we talked about this a little earlier about the benefit of, you know, multiple perspectives and ultimately it ensures a better outcome when you’re able to consider every potential, you know, nuance of an issue and the consequence of a decision from the lens of different perspectives and voices and people who, again, represent really unique understandings that most of us won’t have. 

And so that is both the power of diverse perspectives. You know, generally in an organization, and certainly when it comes to, you know, kind of pressure testing some of these thorny issues that we’re invited to engage in or to weigh in on, that’s an example of why you want as many perspectives around that table to that every potential consideration is debated. 

And so I hope that that conversation continues to be pretty rich and dynamic and challenging because that’s what we need to ensure we ultimately get to the right decision that is considered every, every risk. 

Shahar: And within that context, let’s talk a little bit about diversity. I know it’s a topic that you’re personally passionate about and have done a lot of work around, and I’m wondering what is your opinion of, you know, the winds that are blowing right now in this arena. 

You know, what some people refer to as the DEI backlash or the ESG backlash. Again, especially in America, and especially given the polarization that there is in America. How is that affecting your work on diversity?  

Torod: I know there’s a political campaign afoot, right, largely in the US to, you know, try and, you know, take advantage some of the political center. But I think from my vantage point, again, as a business leader, what I say about this broad, you know, broad, you know, question is, ultimately, for me, I want a high-performing team that is going to allow me to compete and win in the marketplace. 

And so, as an organization, you know, we’ve got a business plan that we’ve committed to, you know, our board, to, you know, our shareholders, that we’re going to deliver, that’s going to create value, drive profit and growth, and to deliver on that plan, we need the world’s best talent. And so from my vantage point, it’s as simple as that. And so then if your aspiration is to compete and win in the marketplace, then you absolutely have to have the best team. And the best team is a factor of, I think, some things that are fairly intuitive to all of us. And so that is my goal, that is my aspiration, that is what I am most concerned about. 

You cannot tell me, at the end of this conversation, that the best team a monolithic team. And so, to the conversation about, you know, reputation issues, management, organization, that dynamism, again, if my commitment is to win in the marketplace and winning is a factor of having the best talent, then I’m going to do whatever needs to be done to ensure I have the best talent. 

Shahar: And have you had any resistance within the organization given that trend, that backlash trend?  

Torod: To your point, every organization today, you know, living in our society, I think is clearly aware of, and some more than others have been subject to perhaps a little more pressure in this area. But I think our company has been fairly consistent about this concept of, you know, competing in the marketplace and having the best talent and ensuring that our workforce is representative of the customers that we support and the broader society at large that we aspire to engage, in healthcare, and so I think in some ways, you know, we have been consistent about our views and our perspective and, you know, done the work, you know, to ensure that everything that we’re doing is above board and is, you know, aligned with the, you know, reality of, you know, laws and regulations that exist in the US in particular, but then more globally as well. And so I think having done that work, we’ve also, you know, continued to be consistent about, you know, this is an important topic for us.  

Shahar: Now, when it comes to your role… we talked a little bit about the evolution of the function and the profession, and I want to talk a bit about the evolution of the role, the CCO role. You’re, again, in a slightly different position because you’re heading both marketing and communications, and that’s also interesting. I also want to touch on that. But how would you say the CCO role has evolved over the years? 

Torod: One of the changes is, again to this last couple of conversations we’ve been having… the change in the stakeholder ecosystem, you know, the role, power, influence they have, you know, the social and digital transformation of the last couple of decades has been big. 

I think this opportunity, this challenge for companies that are increasingly being challenged to engage, to influence some of these macro societal issues, economic issues as well, means that I think as CCOs, as a collective, we’re having a different conversation, expected to have a different conversation, you know, with our, you know, internal stakeholders, and that is dramatically different as well. 

I think this question that every organization is being challenged to consider about the role of business in society and, in particular, the role of business in a society that is being disrupted along economic and technological and cultural and social means, also means that this role of, you know, CCO, you know, sits atop a lot of that, you know, dynamism and is the facilitator or navigator of some of these debates internally, and that is wholly different. 

And I think, lastly, one of the things that I think increasingly is becoming the purview of the CCO is really advising and counseling, you know, the organization’s senior-most leaders on this navigation journey, which is, you know, a wholly new set of responsibilities, and then if you add lastly to your point, you know, many of these roles are being expanded beyond the traditional to include other areas, other domains, and I think some of that is a reflection of the power and influence of sitting atop these stakeholders and having the accountability or, you know, establishing the accountability for that consistency of experience, whether that’s across messaging or platforms or audiences, it’s an unbelievably important role. 

And I think increasingly CEOs are seeing the importance of someone who comes from a background like a communicator or, to your earlier question, a stakeholder manager, sitting in that role and being even more critical to the success of an organization than the perception may have been, you know, 10 years ago.  

Shahar: Yeah, and I guess that’s also why the profile is gradually changing, right? Because in the past, it was the ex-journalists, which were best at communicating, but as you say, it’s more of a stakeholder manager than a communicator now, so the profile’s probably changing as well.  

Torod: Yeah. I mean, you think about the insight required to, one, understand, you know, these divergent audiences who have unbelievable power, who could disrupt your business and, you know, in minutes or seconds today, and so the ability to understand and kind of navigate that, drive that, in a consistent way, really does speak to, I think, the core value of the function, the discipline at its highest and best use, and, again, reinforce what I think is going to be a continuation of the expansion of the scope and influence and power of the CCO role that we’re seeing today and that, again, I do believe will be the reality for the next several years, as our world gets more complex and challenging.  

Shahar: I remember also hearing you talk at a conference in New York about how leadership is changing in general and how leadership today is a lot more values based. Is that also, do you think, changing the CCO role, the way that you see leadership in general changing?  

Torod: I think it is. Again, I think it’s a culmination of all the things that we’ve been talking about and this need to establish a connection from who organizations say they are and who they are in reality and navigating that continuum. 

And so that continuum includes, again, all these challenging things we’ve been talking about. And a lot of that, you know, is grounded in an understanding of the values of the organization. And so part of that accountability, you know, from who we say we are to who we actually are is also a values conversation as well that you’re aligning. 

It’s not just… but it’s not just ours, it’s also business operations and it’s policies, it’s procedures, it’s culture, and ensuring that connectedness, so that there is a consistent X or Y, and whether that’s culture, brand, message, experience, and that is an increasingly sharp and pointy conversation because of the reality and the environment we live in. 

And that in some ways is what I’ve alluded to is going to get more challenging, as our world becomes more challenging for the next several years, but that also goes back to that, you know, power and influence of the role, of the function.  

Shahar: Yeah, and when it comes to the power of the function, there’s this discussion about, you know, the “seat at the table” debate that we always hear about in comms. Do you think we’re beyond that? Or what would be your advice to others who are still trying to get that seat at the table?  

Torod: I think, by and large today, we’ve in most places gotten the seat, right? Now, where the seat around the table is probably a variable for a lot of us. But I think, and generally again, because of all the things we’ve been talking about, the stature of kind of the roles we play, I think, is a much more significant level. 

The reality is, the bigger question is, how do you maintain that seat, and not just that seat as it relates to a person, you know, the seat as it relates to me or you or, you know, some specific individual, but how you maintain that seat for the function, right? So how do we cement that seat as being held by our organization? And that, again, is a factor of, in my opinion, a lot of the things we’ve been talking about already, which is, you know, a clear understanding of the data, ownership of the data and the insights that come from that, so that we can have a differentiated point of view, that we bring a differentiated voice, informed, grounded, to that table, and I think a collective understanding of this global reality, right? 

So, understanding the trends that are taking place in the world around us, within our stakeholders and also beyond them as well, and being that synthesizer, again, grounded in data, to bring that perspective to the table. And then I think always being a little bit of that sharp, pointy voice in the room, right? So those are the kinds of competencies and also behaviors that are critical, so that, ultimately, I think one of the most prominent aspirations that are top of mind for me is ensuring that, after me, the seat at the table is still there, right? 

And the person who follows me is able to sit in that seat. And so that’s what is increasingly more important than ensuring that I’m at the table. It’s ensuring that, for the next 25 years, that seat does not move.  

Shahar: I want to finish off with something I usually ask my guests. We talk a lot about the importance of being “always on”, but how do you switch off?  

Torod: That is… That’s an interesting challenge. Although I do think it has become a lot easier for many of us post the pandemic, right? Where I think we all had this reset of, “okay, you know what, I need to make sure I’m prioritizing my mental health”. 

And so I think the pandemic, you know, many horrible things, but some of the benefits were this recalibration for a lot of us about the lines, you know, the boundaries of, you know, what’s most critical, our mental health and our collective wellbeing first, and then whatever that thing is that generates income second. And so that’s been key to me and certainly one of the big takeaways coming out of the pandemic, just given, you know, the challenges of our personal lives that we all navigated during that time. 

But tactically speaking, I mean, it literally boils down to, you know, there’s some days where there’s a clear commitment. “Okay, I’m turning off my device.” And I let all the people who need to know, know that, “Okay, I am out today and that means I’m actually out.” And so you won’t hear from me, you won’t see me and then trying to preserve your personal time. So if that can be weekends. My weekends are weekends, right? And so they’re not “workends”. 

And so I’m also pretty clear with my team that that expectation is the same for them. And so time off is time off. And I don’t engage, you know, with my colleagues who are on vacation, my teammates who are on vacation, when they’re on vacation, and I set that clear expectation. And so I don’t want to hear from you, don’t want to see you, I don’t want to get email from you, and you should expect the same from me. 

And so I think it’s establishing some of those operating mechanisms as a leader, as key to creating a culture, and then having people understand that it’s not just an idea, it’s an expectation. And so that’s big and so I try and do that personally and then model that for my teams as well. 

Shahar: Hear, hear. Torod Neptune, thank you so much, it’s been a pleasure speaking to you. I appreciate your time today.  

Torod: It’s great speaking to you as well. Thanks for your time.